SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

when TSHTF, i think some owners may cut loose their pets
and some dogs may form packs for survival purposes
it could be a " dog-eat-dog " environment

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UM UM GOOD (when the time comes)

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neighbors's dog; "The Other White meat"

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Yeah, wild dog packs are no fun. There were a few of them out where I grew up --people would drive out to the country and drop off their troublesom dogs. It didn't help that those dogs they didnt want anymore tended to be the big breeds. They were something you had to be constantly wary of as they had little to no fear of humans. It's no fun coming across a wild german shepherd or doberman that has no fear of human, let alone a human child/teen.

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Went through this a couple of years ago at my parents. Tame dogs dropped off in the country formed a pack. They got a number of my parents wild turkeys and some of the other neighbor's livestock. The neighbors talked it over, and within a few weeks the problem was resolved either by lead or poison.

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While that may be true in some shtf events how about in a mass swine flu die-off. There will be a lot of dogs and cats on the wild. In such cases you have got to kill every dog and cat you come across. Cats because they will hunt birds that you may need to hunt (duck) and those other birds help eat those bugs in your garden. Dogs, because like said previously, wild dogs have no fear of humans. I've read accounts of a pack of dogs literally sending in a nice docile looking female and right as you may friends with it ... BAM ... you're surrounded by a pack of 40 really hungry dogs. I'd rather face a pack of wolves.

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Shotgun comes in real handy versus a rogue dog or pack. A couple buck shots into a few of them and they will disperse - or so I hope!

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I saw a local pack (7 big dogs) attack one of our neighbors while he was on his tractor bushwacking his field. They took off after we put a few warning shots into the air; but you best believe he was on the lookout everytime he was in his field after that. He was lucky we happened to be out in our neighboring field on our atvs with our 22's at the time.

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"warning shots?"
Do not make that mistake again.
This ain't the movies.

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Yeah, I was 13 at the time, and shooting directly at a pack of dogs that were busy attacking my neighbor from over a hundred yards way was not something I was going to risk. More power to you. I don't make it a habit of shooting into the direction of friends.

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You got to hit the pack leader (alpha male) and the beta male. Say you hit two or three or the lesser members the others may still see you as three days worth of food. (Remember the scene with the babe shooting the pack of dingos from Quigley Down Under.)

I had occasion to go through every ccl application in a small Midwestern state two years back. About 10% of the applications said wild dogs/wild animals for reason for carrying.

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imagine how much of a problem they'll be when the ammo runs out.

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SWINE / AVIAN FLU,,,,,need cats to kill birds,,,,then kill cats.....use dogs to kill

wild hogs, then kill dogs.

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I think compound bows are a highly underrated weapon. With practice they are quite accurate, have better practical range then most hand guns, penetrate most body armor, and are silent.

That being said I don't plan on running out of ammo.

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Speaking of which. Anybody want to give recommendation on compound bows or know if a thread here has discussed them?

My wife is still very wary of guns (won't even touch them, let alone go to the shooting range) but she is hip to bows and would definitely be down with practicing to become adept with one.

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Sheeeeooooooot...
Ya gots ta know the 5 deadly pressure points for canine attacks, yo!
Dude, if it gets that bad.....I got my badazz hand-to-paw combat methodology complete with Chuck Norris approved modified low roundhouse kick. Hand to paw, dudes! Know the death points!

Or, I'll pop their brains out like I usually do-cuz I have guns.....and opposinable thumbs.....and a pretty good frunnle lobe.

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Wild dog discussions and stories from Buckshot's Trappers website:

http://www.captaindaves.com/buckshot/dogs.htm

Wild Dogs Pose Post-TEOTWAWKI Danger

I was in a chat room tonight and we were discussing dogs. I said "If TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it) happens, then 100 millions dog will be a major problem." Then we got to talking about the Great Depression and how the land was almost hunted dry.

First, before we accept that as fact, here was the argument. One person stated that when the great depression happened there was half the population, then there is now. So, if a great world collapse was to happen today, his premise was there wouldn't be anything left in the forest. I have to disagree. My biggest point was during the G.D., 40 percent of the population came from farms, most knew how to hunt and a fair percentage knew how to trap. Then it makes senses that the game would disappear. But even then, there were a percentage of trappers all over this country that fed their families and saved their farms with the fur money. See the value of trapping?

My premise is we have 90 percent of the U.S. population in the cities. Most are soft and would rather steal what you have then work at hunting or trapping. I believe most will never get out of the cities and will die in a hail of gunfire, rioting and fires. When all this is going on, they will let their pets go free, thinking at least they can survive on their own. This is why at 4:00 am I'm writing this article. I could not sleep. I know city people will do this and we will have 100 million dogs and 80 million cats released to go wild.

Now what I have to say next is not for the weak hearted, if for any reason you have a weak stomach or can't handle a cold hard reality check, then go back to my home page and choose another article.

OK, for those that are still with me, these animals will be a major problem and must be dealt with. Period. This isn't Disney, where you can talk to the poor dog and cat and the world is all fuzzy and warm. This is reality. If you own animals never, ever, EVER, release them to go wild. If you don't have the stomach for putting them down, have someone else do it. If you have to put dog food away at your camp, cache, whatever, great. I think a dog is invaluable then. A cat in the wild in this crisis is your greatest enemy. One study in Wisconsin found that the best predator against small game was the house cat. The common house cat killed more small game then all other predators in the study.

Now the reason I'm up this late and can't sleep is the dogs. I understand pack mentality and a pack of dogs scares me more then a pack of wolves. I have been studying the woods and wildlife my whole life. This is how the dogs will form packs, an alpha male will take control of the pack with a beta male as second in command, the packs will range from 6 to 100 dogs depending on the food supply.

This scenario, I read years ago of a pack like this had 45 dogs and this was how they attacked people. The alpha picked a friendly looking female like a collie. This is the decoy dog. As you are walking in the woods, the collie approaches and draws your attention, as the packs circle you for the kill. When the pack sneaks up to striking distance, they will attack and so will the decoy. I'm talking lighting fast 45 dogs coming at you. How many rounds does your clip have?

You see when the riots and the death in the city is happening the dogs will learn to fed on the bodies then in turn will acquire the taste for humans. Now you have a pack of wild dogs who consider you and your loved ones as food. They have no fear of man and will kill you to insure their own survival. Now, I'm not trying to scare you and sell fear. I am telling you that this will happen if the chaos of TEOTWAWKI occurs. You'll have to learn to kill dogs and cats on sight. Period. This is not an option.

If you want to insure your own survival, then listen to me. This is no game. If you think I'm just stating this to sell you trapping equipment then click off this article and go take a poll of the people you know, ask the following question, "What would you do with your dog and cat if you lost your job and could not afford to fed them?" I have lived in the country most of my life and I have had to deal with these animals that people let go on their own.

I have talked to the people who have told me that they still believe their Ralphy boy is probably still out there hunting with the best of the coyotes. Dreamy like and with pride in there voice! Or I know my cat is still alive because he was the best hunter in the neighborhood, he killed more birds then any other cat!

I'm not selling anything but reality! I'll tell you another dog story that happened to me. I was trapping on this farm years ago and I caught a black mangy, scaly looking black lab mixed mongrel. I have caught lots of dogs over the years and I can let most go with out a problem, unharmed. Anyway, I approached this dog and started talking to him and slowly moving closer. The dog stood up, wagged his tail and appeared happy to see me. When this happens, 99% percent of the time I can release the dog and place him in my truck to take to the farmhouse and explain what happened. Most dogs are fine and have a sore foot for a couple of days, then they're back to normal. Not this dog he lured me in with his friendly attitude until he thought I was in striking distance, then turned into attack mode. Lucky, I was prepared for the reaction and quickly jumped back. I never will forget that lighting fast change and the snarling teeth just missing my hand. The dog misjudged his strike range, if I had been a little closer this would be a different story.

So I walk back to truck truck, found the farmer and told him I caught his dog. The farmer says I don't own a dog and what color is it, because some black mongrel attacked his wife yesterday. To make long story short, the dog was turned over to the humane department and tested positive for rabies. Now this was back in the early eighties when a lot of people were getting laid-off. People were letting their dogs go in the farmers' fields and without proper care, and the dogs picked up all kinds of diseases. Someone has to deal with these dogs. There is no such thing as a dog or cat that is better off let go to fend for themselves. I have seen them all and most of the time you would never recognize them after 6 months on there own.

If a TEOTWAWKI does happen then someone in your group preferably everyone should trap, hunt and kill every dog and cat that has gone wild in your area. Period! I'm writing this early in the morning because I couldn't sleep at the thought of that many wild dogs and cats free in America.

The best defense to protect your garden and livestock or game animals would be snares. I would have 10 dozens coyote grade snares and enough heavy wire to set all of them at once.

Here is another theory: Starving people will kill the dogs for food. I say sure some will become food, but the average household that has guns has less then 50 rounds, although most survivalists will have much more. So, I think after the first week most people will be out of ammo. Then the packs will rule.

Let me know what you think, am I way off base? I just keep thinking of all the people in the cities and their "My dogs are my children" attitude. Dog and cat food is a huge business. I mean, they have pet psychiatrist for Christ sakes. Think about all the movies and shows like 911 where people risk their lives to save animals. I'm not saying that this is wrong, all I'm pointing out is people's attitude toward pets, and I guarantee they will let them go to fend for themselves when the food runs out. Make sure you are ready to face this threat.

More stories: (I apologize for any redundancy)

http://www.captaindaves.com/buckshot/moredogs.htm

http://www.captaindaves.com/buckshot/dogs3.htm

http://www.captaindaves.com/buckshot/dogs3-more.htm

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Whatever you may think of the attitude , many Americans feel their pets are their children. While I can too readily believe the "release back to nature" stuff, since it already happens, I see very few people turning to dogs and cats for food, to the point that by the time they're ready to do so, the pet will be as emaciated as the master. And country folk are going to need their trusted animals for the jobs they do today--even more so, since the rat population will EXPLODE. Forget cats--a few Jack Russells will keep the vermin down.

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Great links, thanks. Over the years I have often tried to explain to friends that grew up in cities or suburbia how wild dogs were pretty much the biggest threat out where I grew up (very rural). None of them could really comprehend it, they may have come across a "mean dog" or two but never a full pack of predatory dogs. A number of times we ended up having a pack chase us on our ATVs, most we could outrun no problem; but there was this one wild husky....man that sucker could keep pace for well over a mile. Definitely something to think about/plan for should TSHTF.

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Dangerous Wild Dogs Packs and Pack Mentality

http://www.drum-runners.com/General%...ild%20Dogs.pdf

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While wild dogs may be a problem in some spots, if TSHTF, I think most people will wisely rely on their own dogs for companionship and mutual survival than strangers (humans).

After all, a dog is mans' best friend.

Just watch "I Am Legend".

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not all feral dogs are hostile to humans. i guess it depends on their "micro-climate".

my parents adopted a feral dog on a trip to Mexico. they were at a beach resort and the wild dogs had learned to beg for food from the tourists. however, the lifeguards chased away the dogs. my parents fed this one dog and he remembered them. on the final day, he had dug a hole and buried himself under their beach chair, to hide from the lifeguards.

they decided to adopt him, and brought him back to the states. no problems around young children. he needed some vet treatment for skin problems etc.

he was definitely a wild dog, but looks different than the pictures. i guess there's different species or sub-species.

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Excellent read....very scary. Talked with son and husband about it! Thanks for the good information:coolbeer:

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Wild dogs and cats.... they're what's for dinner.

Make sure you have a scoped .22 handy!

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When I was a kid, the same nasty dog chased me to school every morning. He wasn't feral, but his owner almost let him me. It got to the point where the dog would come to the next block looking for me while I was playing outside. I confronted it once with a bat, and the owner saw it. After that the animal was on a line.

Feral dogs are a huge problem in Moscow. Many of them live in and around the subways.

Sometimes the homeless people establish relationships with them, and the dogs see them as the alphas.

They've generally learned that it isn't worth it to mess with humans, and they leave us alone.

I have no idea what they eat. Shopkeepers and other people sometimes give them handouts, and I think this keeps them from attacking humans. But if the handouts stopped coming, I don't know what would happen.

When I lived in Poland my wife and I were attacked by three dogs while riding our bikes in the countryside.

I whizzed a baseball sized rock at the head of the leader as soon as he bared his teeth, and that sent them away. I got used to carrying rocks in my pocket against the dogs, and using a bike chain as a whip. I swung the bike chain at dogs a few times.

Russians used to use a nagaika whip against animals. It was a three or four foot rawhide whip with a hard stone in the end.

In SHTF, I'll kill every dog I see. If an animal is not my pet, it's my food or my enemy.

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I find this talk about striking at their alpha to be fascinating.

How exactly does this work? When an alpha dog is struck down, the pack always / naturally scrambles away?

How does one know exactly which dog is the alpha?

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i was hunting deer last winter an 5 big ass dogs starting running around my tree i was in barking an howling ... i got 3 out of the five

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WHO'S IN CHARGE HERE? A lesson in becoming Alpha

by Vicki Rodenberg De Gruy "My dog just tried to bite me! All I did was tell him to move over so I could sit on the couch next to him."
" My dog got into the trash can and when I scolded her, she growled at me. What's wrong with her? I thought she loved me!"
" Our dog is very affectionate most of the time but when we try to make him do something he doesn't want to do, he snaps at us."
What do these three dogs have in common? Are they nasty or downright vicious? No - they're "alpha". They've taken over the leadership of the families that love them. Instead of taking orders from their people, these dogs are giving orders! Your dog can love you very much and still try to dominate you or other members of your family.

Dogs are social creatures and believers in social order. A dog's social system is a "pack" with a well-defined pecking order. The leader of the pack is the alpha, supreme boss, Top Dog. He (or she) gets the best of everything - the best food, the best place to sleep, the best toy, etc. The leader also gets to be first in everything - he gets to eat first, to leave first and to get attention first.

All the other dogs in the pack respect the alpha dog's wishes. Any dog that challenges the alpha's authority gets a swift physical reminder of just where his place in the pack really is.
Your family is your dog's "pack". Many dogs fit easily into the lower levels of their human pack's pecking order and don't make waves. They do what they're told and don't challenge authority. Other dogs don't fit in quite as well. Some of them are natural born leaders and are always challenging their human alpha's. Other dogs are social climbers - they're always looking for ways to get a little closer to the top of the family ladder. These natural leaders and the social climbers can become problems to an unsuspecting family that's not aware of the dog's natural pack instincts.

Some families encourage their dogs to take over the "pack" without realizing it. They treat their dogs as equals, not as subordinates. They give them special privileges like being allowed to sleep on the bed or couch. They don't train their dogs and let them get away with disobeying commands. In a real dog pack, no one but the alpha dog would get this kind of treatment. Alpha doesn't have anything to do with size. The tiniest Chihuahua can be a canine Hitler. In fact, the smaller the dog, the more people tend to baby them and cater to them - making the dog feel even more dominant and in control of his humans.

Alpha dogs often seem to make good pets. They're confident, smarter than average, and affectionate. They can be wonderful with children and good with strangers. Everything seems to be great with the relationship - until someone crosses him or makes him do something he doesn't want to do. Then, suddenly, this wonderful dog growls or tries to bite someone and no one understands why.

In a real dog pack, the alpha dog doesn't have to answer to anyone. No one gives him orders or tells him what to do. The other dogs in the pack respect his position. If another dog is foolish enough to challenge the alpha by trying to take his bone or his favorite sleeping place, the alpha dog will quickly put him in his place with a hard stare or a growl. If this doesn't work, the alpha dog will enforce his leadership with his teeth. This is all natural, instinctive behavior - in a dog's world. In a human family, though, this behavior is unacceptable and dangerous.

Dogs need and want leaders. They have an instinctive need to fit into a pack. They want the security of knowing their place and what's expected of them. Most of them don't want to be alpha - they want someone else to give the orders and make the decisions. If his humans don't provide that leadership, the dog will take over the role himself. If you've allowed your dog to become alpha, you're at his mercy and as a leader, he may be either a benevolent king or a tyrant!

If you think your dog is alpha in your household, he probably is. If your dog respects only one or two members of the family but dominates the others, you still have a problem. The dog's place should be at the -bottom- of your human family's pack order, not at the top or somewhere in between.

In order to reclaim your family's rightful place as leaders of the pack, your dog needs some lessons in how to be a subordinate, not an equal. You're going to show him what it means to be a dog again. Your dog's mother showed him very early in life that -she- was alpha and that he had to respect her. As a puppy, he was given a secure place in his litter's pack and because of that security, he was free to concentrate on growing, learning, playing, loving and just being a dog. Your dog doesn't really want the responsibility of being alpha, having to make the decisions and defend his position at the top. He wants a leader to follow and worship so he can have the freedom of just being a dog again.

How to become leader of your pack

Your dog watches you constantly and reads your body language. He knows if you're insecure, uncomfortable in a leadership role or won't enforce a command. This behavior confuses him, makes -him- insecure and if he's a natural leader or has a social-climbing personality, it'll encourage him to assume the alpha position and tell -you- what to do.

"Alpha" is an attitude. It involves quiet confidence, dignity, intelligence, an air of authority. A dog can sense this attitude almost immediately - it's how his mother acted towards him. Watch a professional trainer or a good obedience instructor. They stand tall and use their voices and eyes to project the idea that they're capable of getting what they want. They're gentle but firm, loving but tough, all at the same time. Most dogs are immediately submissive towards this type of personality because they recognize and respect alpha when they see it.

Practice being alpha. Stand up straight with your shoulders back. Walk tall. Practice using a new tone of voice, one that's deep and firm. Don't ask your dog to do something - tell him. There's a difference. He knows the difference, too! Remember that, as alpha, you're entitled to make the rules and give the orders. Your dog understands that instinctively.

With most dogs, just this change in your attitude and an obedience training course will be enough to turn things around. With a dog that's already taken over the household and has enforced his position by growling or biting and has been allowed to get away with it, you'll need to do more than just decide to be alpha. The dog is going to need an attitude adjustment as well.

Natural leaders and social climbers aren't going to want to give up their alpha position. Your sudden change in behavior is going to shock and threaten them. Your dog might act even more aggressively than before. An alpha dog will instinctively respond to challenges to his authority. It's his nature to want to put down revolutionary uprisings by the peasants! Don't worry, there's a way around it.

An alpha dog already knows that he can beat you in a physical fight so returning his aggression with violence of your own won't work. Until you've successfully established your position as alpha, corrections like hitting, shaking, or using the "rollover" techniques described in some books will not work and can be downright dangerous to you. An alpha dog will respond to these methods with violence and you could be seriously hurt.

What you need to do is use your brain! You're smarter than he is and you can out think him. You'll also need to be stubborner than he is. What I'm about to describe here is an effective, non-violent method of removing your dog from alpha status and putting him back at the bottom of the family totem pole where he belongs and where he needs to be. In order for this method to work, your whole family has to be involved. It requires an attitude adjustment from everyone and a new way of working with your dog.

This is serious business. A dog that bites or threatens people is a dangerous dog, no matter how much you love him. If treating your dog like a dog and not an equal seems harsh to you, keep in mind that our society no longer tolerates dangerous dogs. Lawsuits from dog bites are now settling for millions of dollars - you could lose your home and everything else you own if your dog injures someone. You or your children could be permanently disfigured. And your dog could lose his life. That's the bottom line.

more . . . .

http://www.pets.ca/articles/article-alphadog.htm

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Alpha Dog Behavior

Dog Social Pack Behavior
In dog social pack behavior dogs need to form a social hierarchy with each one knowing its place in the pack. This becomes particularly clear when you already have a dog and you bring home a new puppy. The temptation is to over support the puppy which causes confusion in terms of how the "pack" (your family and your dogs) view each other.
The best thing to do is to support the dog that is most dominant in the household which is a dog that is not too old or young and in great health. You can reinforce the dominance of the alpha or top dog by feeding this dog first, putting on this dog's leash first, providing treats first etc. If dog's are of equal age, then favor the one that is most dominant, not the weakest. Favoring the weakness because this pet is the "underdog" is the worst thing you can do since it is exactly counter to the natural behavior of your dogs.

Watch dog social pack behavior behavior carefully. If growling and snapping becomes deep biting it is possible that the two dogs will never get along and therefore should be kept separated.

more . . .

http://www.dog-health-guide.org/alphadogbehavior.html

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Sheriff: Ga. couple likely killed in dog attack


ATLANTA � A former college professor and his wife were apparently attacked and killed by nearly a dozen dogs along a rural northeast Georgia road where their bodies were found mutilated, authorities said Monday.

Preliminary autopsy results from the Georgia Bureau of Investigation showed Sherry Schweder, 65, likely died of injuries suffered in a dog attack, Oglethorpe County Sheriff Mike Smith said. Autopsy results for her husband, Lothar Karl Schweder, 77, were not yet available, but Smith said it's likely he was also attacked by dogs because the scene was so grisly.

Smith said officials were going to round up at least 11 dogs seen in the area where the couple's mutilated bodies were found Saturday morning by five passers-by.

It wasn't immediately clear whether the mixed-breed dogs, which are to be captured by animal control officers from neighboring Madison County, were feral or someone's pets. There had been no recent complaints about vicious dogs in the area, Smith said.

Stephanie Shain, a spokeswoman for the Humane Society of the United States, said it was "uncommon" for people to be bitten to death by dogs, citing federal figures that the average number of fatal dog bites each year is 16.

The bodies were found along a dirt road near the couple's home in Lexington and had been there for at least 24 hours before they were found, said county coroner James Mathews.

A family friend told the Athens Banner-Herald that Lothar Karl Schweder was a retired professor who had taught German at the University of Georgia, which is about 20 miles away in Athens.

UGA German Department head Martin Kagel said he didn't know Lothar Karl Schweder and that no one currently with the department knew him. However, he said it might be possible Schweder worked there part time or worked there more than 20 years ago.

Sherry Schweder was a bibliographer at the university's library, where she had worked since 1974, selecting books and journals for the school's humanities collection, said university librarian William Potter.

Nan McMurry, Sherry Schweder's supervisor who had worked with her for about 20 years, said she was stunned.

"She was one of my favorite colleagues here," McMurry said. "She was really a kind of quiet and self-effacing person, but she was one of the most intelligent and most well-educated people here."

McMurry said Sherry Schweder had many dogs and cats, though authorities don't think her own dogs attacked her.

York Schweder, one of the couple's two sons, had left for Georgia after hearing about his parents' death, said his mother-in-law, Toni Mora, who answered the phone at his home in Hutchinson, Kan. York Schweder did not immediately return a message left Monday on his cell phone.

A message left at a number listed for the couple's other son, who lives in Aiken, S.C., was not immediately returned.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090817/...e_dead_georgia

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I was out in the bush with a friend in Alaska back in the early 1980's, I heard some barking dogs in the background but didn't pay attention to it. All of the sudden, my friend said "get up in that tree, now" We climbed up and a couple minutes later a pack of a dozen or so dogs came to where we were standing. They were barking, circled around the tree and just sat down looking up at us. After about 10 minutes, my friend started shooting them with a .357. They took off and we got the hell out of there. He said they shoot feral dogs on sight up there.

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In a SHTF scenario with feral dogs I would have until recently used ketchup.

Since I have recently absorbed some culture I will now use my special marinade, followed by a couple of hours on a rotisserie.

Since this behavior is discouraged pre-SHTF, I shall eagerly await TEOTWAWKI and being cornered by dogs.

Bring it on, Rover.

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I ran into this last night after dropping my truck off at a mechanics down the service road from my house. I'm in Rural Texas...

I was unarmed (usually ALWAYS packin) and had two dogs begin to approach me. One was barking, and the other decided to approach me showing me his teeth.

I knew it could get ugly so I made direct eye contact with the mean one, and began to slowly walk bakwards maintaining eye contact. I picked up the nearest heavy rock I could find, and kept my eye on him.

I love dogs, but these were WAY too territorial.

I was kicking myself for not having the 38spl. I'd have popped off a few warning rounds if I had had it.

Otherwise, that dog almost got a big rock to the head.

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Have never been afraid of the things.
maybe that'll be my undoing someday, but you make eye contact with a dog and step towards it and they are a lot like people, they will cower and back away.
Yeah , I know there'll be exceptions.
Almost nothing on 4 legs really scares me. 2 legs, different story.
2 legs and a business suit? Now we're talking fear.
Not an immediate threat usually, and not because of them specifically, but the thousands of followers they always have in their pack.

Tracker , by Tom Brown Jr. has lost of made up info on wild dog packs , for anyone that likes fiction.

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I'm not afraid of single dogs either. If you don't show fear but instead authority they will leave you alone. In groups though they can be dangerous.

I have had a couple of close encounters. One was when I was about 20. I didn't have a car at the time and would have to take the bus. I was working nights and the shortest way to the bus stop was through a large school yard.

One night I was running through the field because I was running a little late. There was some snow on the ground. All of a sudden I could hear something coming up really fast behind me. I knew it was a big dog. It must have thought I was prey because I was running.

I turned around and in a deep growling voice yelled ,"HEY!!" while at the same time crouching a bit and spreading my arms ready to fight. All this was instinctive I didn't really have time to think.

It was a German Shepard and when a did this it did a one-eighty and ran off. I probably scared the crap out of it. Anyway after that I realized carrying a knife wasn't such a a bad idea.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

If you are faced with more vicious animals than you have ammo for (or time to shoot it) you do NOT shoot to kill.

You shoot to wound. Don't worry about whether its the 'alpha' or not. (Though that helps)

The cries of the injured will scare the rest off....and give them something easier to feed on.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

Visiting a friend's farm, he has a pack of german shepards. The lead shepard is an all-white girl, who is very strong, I watch her jump a 4.5foot fence all day long.

Anyway, as it happens, there are times when I am on the farm and jogging/running.

Anytime I run anywhere, she instantly runs up next to me, and then INTO me.

She kept faking, running into my path, running into my feet.

She was testing me, to see if I would avoid her.

Once I decided to ignore her and keep running, she stopped doing it.

German Shepards love to test boundaries, and hope to establish new dominance based from those tests.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

I think feral dogs in a SHTF situation would be relatively short lived,half of all dogs are the lapdog,small variety, no real threat, and will be killed off, by starvation, disease climate or predators soon after a collapse. Dogs normally get food from humans, many are aggressive, but few are true hunters, just because "Buck" can point game, doesnt mean he can catch it. packs of true hunting dogs will eventually form, but few in number as food decreases. the Pit bull, Rotweiller variety, the most feared would do the worst in SHTF. they have incredible bite ability, but they arent built for speed or agility.their intelligence is marginal.The German shepard/Husky breeds (closest to a wolf) and terriers (closest to fox) would be the most successful.Many will be eaten by humans (IE China, Korea)others by natural predators,their own lack of fear will make THEM easy prey. when the dust settles, and food stabilizes at a lower level, these dogs will be no more threat than wolves,dangerous if encountered but few in numbers.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

FWIW, Exotic animals are a far more dangerous deal in SHTF. Tigers and Lions can survive in almost any climate. your homes boundary cannot stop them. light caliber weapons are almost useless. Cats are the Alpha predator no matter their size. smart, agile, vicious,and almost impossible to kill,In warmer temps, reptiles can easily survive,Cobras,Asps etc. certain herbivores such as elephants, rhinos are extremely dangerous, another reason not to be near/in a city....Zoos

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

cats, dogs, . . . . . . food is food

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mvj_lI3uxf...sonore+043.jpg

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

All this "kill the Alpha" stuff is for TV.

If you're attacked by a pack of dogs you shoot the closest, the easiest, start from the left, whatever is more tactically sound. Alpha, Beta, low man on the totem pole, it doesn't matter. Dogs don't like loud noises, nor their packmates shrieking in pain.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

Another story - once I was taking a bike ride at night and stopped in a park to have a smoke. I started hearing Coyettes yelping which is common in my area. Before I knew it, I heard maybe 30+ coyettes around me - and LOUD - like the closest one was only 10 feet away in the bushes!

I was alone so I just imitated their yell as loud and long as I possibly could, one time.

They immediately stopped all their "howling at the moon" business and I didn't see a trace for the rest of the night. Because a dog is acting mildly aggressive means he has NOT decided to attack yet - he is still testing boundaries and intimidating.

I know coyettes are cowards but I think the theory holds true.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

Years ago it used to be popular for people where I live to have wolf/dog crosses. I had a dog staulk me one night that may have been one of them.

In the summer of 1975 I was working in the mountains on a crew that was rebuilding 13 bridges. In the fall the bridge crew shut down but they kept me on to help another guy on the road crew at night. We would take an air drill mounted on tracks up on the side of a mountain and drill holes. The day crew would pack them with fertilizer and dynamite them blow them. They had a bull dozer to clear the rocks away then at night we'd return and dril more holes. Later on after we got a big enough space cleared we were able to drive a truck up there and use a big rotary drill that was mounted on it.

I would help the fellow I was working with get the truck up on the mountain, set up and started then I'd go fuel up the dozer and scraper they were using in the daytime. They had a yard several miles from where we were working. There was a van there where they stored tools and a 3000 gal. fuel tank. There was just a hand pump on the tank so I'd drive an old fuel truck up there then climb up on the tank and pump fuel in it to fuel the scraper and dozer.

Ocasionaly I'd seen what looked like one of these wolf/dog crosses in that area. He looked to be part german sheppard. The first time I saw him was off to the side of the road chasing chickens in a farm yard. Didn't look like anyone was home. Another time I saw him off to the side of the road eating on a deer carcass. He crossed the road once in front of me when I was going home in the late afternoon while I was working with the bridge crew. He was big and had white eyes. At the time there were very few people living in that area. The houses were few and far between.

The next time I saw him I was sitting up on that 3000 gal. fuel tank in the middle of the night all alone pumping fuel. I caught sight of a little movement off to my left out of the corner of my eye. There was a yard light where the shop/van and fuel tank were but it wasn't real close to where I was so the light was dim. His eyes were locked on me, he was crouched down and coming slowly towards me. I hollered at him, cussed him and told him to git! He stopped but stayed crouched with his eyes locked on me. I thought.... uh oh!!!...this could be trouble and I better do something quick. He was probably fourty feet from me. I pulled the hose out of the fuel truck and slid down off the bulk tank. There were some blocks of wood there on the ground and I kept on cussing him and threw some of them at him. He moved out of the way of them so I didn't hit him but he didn't back off. As I was throwing them I was headed for the door of the fuel truck. I got in and drove off.

From then on I carried a rifle with me to and from work and while I was pumping fuel. I never did see him again. I sure would like to have shot him because he was trouble. I hope someone else shot him or ran over him.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

Dog pack attacks horses in Maple Valley: 2 horses dead
September 6, 2009

Two horses that were nursing colts had be put down Saturday after all four animals were viciously attacked by a pack of dogs

Patricia Clark was so distraught this morning she couldn't face leaving her home: Two horses she had rescued and that were still nursing their foals had be put down Saturday after all four animals were viciously attacked by a pack of dogs.

Only the foals survived.

"They are missing their mommies very much," said a sobbing Clark, who runs an animal rescue farm called Serenity Equine Rescue & Rehabilitation in Maple Valley where she cares for abandoned horses, goats and pigs.

The King County Sheriff's Office responded to a report of dogs attacking horses near the intersection of Southeast 216 Way and 288th Avenue Southeast, near Maple Valley, shortly after 2 p.m. Saturday.

According to the sheriff's office, the investigation was turned over to King County Animal Care and Control.

The dogs' owner surrendered them to animal control and requested they be euthanized, said Christine Lange, a King County spokeswoman. The dogs were euthanized this morning, she said.

Clark cried about that, as well.

"It's not their fault. It's the owner's fault."

Michelle Ammenwerth, who volunteers with Serenity Equine Rescue & Rehabilitation, said the dogs belonged to Clark's neighbors.

Ammenwerth said the dogs started circling the foals and attacked the mares when they tried to protect their young.

According to Clark, the problem began about four months ago when new people moved in next door.

The Seattle Times was unable to confirm the neighbors' identities early today or reach them for comment.

Although animal control had originally said the dogs were pit bulls, Lange, the King County spokeswoman, said that the five dogs were mixed breeds. One or two were pit bull mixes, one was a Chihuahua mix and the other two were mutts, she said.

Clark said none of the neighbor's dogs were spayed or neutered. And they had a hole in their fence, Clark said.

Several weeks ago, Clark said, the adult dogs chased her up her driveway.

Another time, she said, they blocked her path to her well house.

About two weeks ago, Clark caught the neighbor dogs chasing her horses in her pasture.

She'd already spoken to the man next door, she said, but she went back to him to complain again.

"I told him you have got to fix this fence," she said. "And he told me he didn't have time, he works 18 hours a day and had already spent $400 fixing the fence on the other side so his dogs wouldn't get out and fight with another neighbor's dogs."

"And I said, 'Well, if you don't have the time, you shouldn't have dogs,' " Clark said.

Clark called the King County Sheriff's Office, and a deputy responded. She said he told her that it was legal to shoot dogs that chase livestock.

"I said, 'I can't shoot their dogs. I can't shoot animals. I'm in rescue. It's not their fault. It's the people's fault.' "

The neighbor reportedly told the deputy that he would fix the fence, but he didn't, Clark said.

The mares, 5 and 12 years old, were so seriously injured in the dog attack, they had to put down by a vet.

The foals suffered puncture wounds to their legs. They were treated and are expected to recover, Clark said.

She said one of the mares had been rescued from a slaughterhouse when she was 8 months pregnant.

"She had her baby here, and this is what happens to her.

"It's disgusting," she said. "All of these animals (the two horses and five dogs) have been, or will be, killed because of these ignorant and careless people."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...tbulls07m.html

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

God invented shot guns for a reason.

E-A

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

This is a longstanding nightmare of mine.

Starting when i was 16, in Colorado,

My family and my neighbors and me

Had to shoot numbers of feral dogs

Who were tearing up the livestock and the working dogs

And the family pets.

It was an ongoing operation: people were

Dumping dogs off the highway.

I have a simple, if draconian, solution.

Euthanize their owners.

scyth

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

"its not their fault" is NOT an acceptable answer. thats just stupid, you watch these animal attack shows where a bear eats half a guys face and they say "i dont blame the bear" these types of people are simply retarded IMO,and have zero survival skills. predators are just that,and anyone who raises "prey" animals like horses,cows etc. have the DUTY of husbandry to protect them. many of these pack dogs never have had an owner,perhaps their parents or grandparents, did but not them. so thats out the window. IMO these people that have that mentality are the same ones that state that a homeless crackhead that robs and kills a 11 year old while robbing a house are "victims of society." dogs are animals ,if they are dangerous, kill them, no different than a farmer who culls his herd of aggressive steers or shoots the coyote in the henhouse.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

"It's not their fault." IS an acceptable answer.

If you get an infection, you take an antibiotic, right? Not the germs fault, but you try to kill them, eh? i.e. you don't let them have their way.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

Wild Dogs Pose Post-TEOTWAWKI Danger

I was in a chat room tonight and we were discussing dogs. I said "If TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it) happens, then 100 millions dog will be a major problem." Then we got to talking about the Great Depression and how the land was almost hunted dry.

First, before we accept that as fact, here was the argument. One person stated that when the great depression happened there was half the population, then there is now. So, if a great world collapse was to happen today, his premise was there wouldn't be anything left in the forest. I have to disagree. My biggest point was during the G.D., 40 percent of the population came from farms, most knew how to hunt and a fair percentage knew how to trap. Then it makes senses that the game would disappear. But even then, there were a percentage of trappers all over this country that fed their families and saved their farms with the fur money. See the value of trapping?

My premise is we have 90 percent of the U.S. population in the cities. Most are soft and would rather steal what you have then work at hunting or trapping. I believe most will never get out of the cities and will die in a hail of gunfire, rioting and fires. When all this is going on, they will let their pets go free, thinking at least they can survive on their own. This is why at 4:00 am I'm writing this article. I could not sleep. I know city people will do this and we will have 100 million dogs and 80 million cats released to go wild.

Now what I have to say next is not for the weak hearted, if for any reason you have a weak stomach or can't handle a cold hard reality check, then go back to my home page and choose another article.

OK, for those that are still with me, these animals will be a major problem and must be dealt with. Period. This isn't Disney, where you can talk to the poor dog and cat and the world is all fuzzy and warm. This is reality. If you own animals never, ever, EVER, release them to go wild. If you don't have the stomach for putting them down, have someone else do it. If you have to put dog food away at your camp, cache, whatever, great. I think a dog is invaluable then. A cat in the wild in this crisis is your greatest enemy. One study in Wisconsin found that the best predator against small game was the house cat. The common house cat killed more small game then all other predators in the study.

Now the reason I'm up this late and can't sleep is the dogs. I understand pack mentality and a pack of dogs scares me more then a pack of wolves. I have been studying the woods and wildlife my whole life. This is how the dogs will form packs, an alpha male will take control of the pack with a beta male as second in command, the packs will range from 6 to 100 dogs depending on the food supply.

This scenario, I read years ago of a pack like this had 45 dogs and this was how they attacked people. The alpha picked a friendly looking female like a collie. This is the decoy dog. As you are walking in the woods, the collie approaches and draws your attention, as the packs circle you for the kill. When the pack sneaks up to striking distance, they will attack and so will the decoy. I'm talking lighting fast 45 dogs coming at you. How many rounds does your clip have?

You see when the riots and the death in the city is happening the dogs will learn to fed on the bodies then in turn will acquire the taste for humans. Now you have a pack of wild dogs who consider you and your loved ones as food. They have no fear of man and will kill you to insure their own survival. Now, I'm not trying to scare you and sell fear. I am telling you that this will happen if the chaos of TEOTWAWKI occurs. You'll have to learn to kill dogs and cats on sight. Period. This is not an option.

If you want to insure your own survival, then listen to me. This is no game. If you think I'm just stating this to sell you trapping equipment then click off this article and go take a poll of the people you know, ask the following question, "What would you do with your dog and cat if you lost your job and could not afford to fed them?" I have lived in the country most of my life and I have had to deal with these animals that people let go on their own.

I have talked to the people who have told me that they still believe their Ralphy boy is probably still out there hunting with the best of the coyotes. Dreamy like and with pride in there voice! Or I know my cat is still alive because he was the best hunter in the neighborhood, he killed more birds then any other cat!

I'm not selling anything but reality! I'll tell you another dog story that happened to me. I was trapping on this farm years ago and I caught a black mangy, scaly looking black lab mixed mongrel. I have caught lots of dogs over the years and I can let most go with out a problem, unharmed. Anyway, I approached this dog and started talking to him and slowly moving closer. The dog stood up, wagged his tail and appeared happy to see me. When this happens, 99% percent of the time I can release the dog and place him in my truck to take to the farmhouse and explain what happened. Most dogs are fine and have a sore foot for a couple of days, then they're back to normal. Not this dog he lured me in with his friendly attitude until he thought I was in striking distance, then turned into attack mode. Lucky, I was prepared for the reaction and quickly jumped back. I never will forget that lighting fast change and the snarling teeth just missing my hand. The dog misjudged his strike range, if I had been a little closer this would be a different story.

So I walk back to truck truck, found the farmer and told him I caught his dog. The farmer says I don't own a dog and what color is it, because some black mongrel attacked his wife yesterday. To make long story short, the dog was turned over to the humane department and tested positive for rabies. Now this was back in the early eighties when a lot of people were getting laid-off. People were letting their dogs go in the farmers' fields and without proper care, and the dogs picked up all kinds of diseases. Someone has to deal with these dogs. There is no such thing as a dog or cat that is better off let go to fend for themselves. I have seen them all and most of the time you would never recognize them after 6 months on there own.

If a TEOTWAWKI does happen then someone in your group preferably everyone should trap, hunt and kill every dog and cat that has gone wild in your area. Period! I'm writing this early in the morning because I couldn't sleep at the thought of that many wild dogs and cats free in America.

The best defense to protect your garden and livestock or game animals would be snares. I would have 10 dozens coyote grade snares and enough heavy wire to set all of them at once.

Here is another theory: Starving people will kill the dogs for food. I say sure some will become food, but the average household that has guns has less then 50 rounds, although most survivalists will have much more. So, I think after the first week most people will be out of ammo. Then the packs will rule.

Let me know what you think, am I way off base? I just keep thinking of all the people in the cities and their "My dogs are my children" attitude. Dog and cat food is a huge business. I mean, they have pet psychiatrist for Christ sakes. Think about all the movies and shows like 911 where people risk their lives to save animals. I'm not saying that this is wrong, all I'm pointing out is people's attitude toward pets, and I guarantee they will let them go to fend for themselves when the food runs out. Make sure you are ready to face this threat.

http://www.survival-center.com/buckshot/dogs.htm

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

Bummer about the wife. It's also kind of illogical. She's ok with one kind of deadly tool but not another more effective and simple kind?
Try this. Pull up a list of registered sex offenders in your area. Show her how many there are and how close to you they live (this probably only works well in urban areas). Now look up the average response time for the police in your area. Have her sit quietly (talking makes the time go faster) while you count down the average response time for police after someone calls 911. Now repeat this act while showing her how long it would take to get from the front door to your bedroom or your child's room.
Basically you are going to have to indoctrinate her into putting aside irrational fears of gun ownership.
Good luck.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

Canadian-guerilla - very sobering thoughts you've given me. Thanks for the advanced warning, but I read on . . .

I would like to say that I would never let my dogs go if I couldn't feed them. I hope I am never faced with that decision.

I think what you're envisioning is possible, and although I personally do not fear packs of dogs breaking down my door . . . I do think wild dogs decimating the other edible wildlife could be a concern.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

Please not one more word about warning shots, or tried to scare him away. If u have deadly force please use as quickly and repeatedly as possible. Just like wild pigs, kill as many as possible as quick as possible.

Like that stupid "Pig Bomb" doc. on the discovery planet... Going on and on about pig population exploding. So they get locals to catch a couple wild pigs to test for Wild boar genes and a hair sample then release this hogs they just wrestled down and tied up. I'm cursin' the TV out how stupid can a film crew be.... :favorites21:

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

Gives a whole new meaning to "pet food":biggrin:

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

It isn't just feral abandoned dogs although they are a huge part. What I found was neighbors who don't bother to control their animals, the dogs band up and run anything they can. I've seen moose strung up in barb wire and cattle still alive with their entrails on the ground. And these are somebodies pets. I've also had MY dog gutshot on MY property by trigger happy macho a$$holes who go hunting on someone else's place, see a dog and shoot it. Goes both ways, just because you have a goddamn gun doesn't mean you're right. Just because you feed your dog every night doesn't mean it isn't out there during the day running someone's livestock.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

OK, help me figure this out...if we're about to be attacked by a pack of wild dogs, IF we have the time is it best to identify the alpha male and take him out? Would that make the rest of the pack flee?

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

Hello friends, Merry Christmas.

After reading this thread and the great stories by that trapper guy I thought I'd find some recipes to go with it.
Maybe i should post them in the food section?.. naw

(1) Ingredients

100g of boiled dog meat, 500g of gravy, 20g of green onion, 10g of a leek,
10g of perilla leaves, 100g of taro stalk soaked in water.

(2) Sauce

8g of salt, 2g of mashed garlic, 3g of perilla, 2g of red pepper, 2g of mashed
ginger, a little amount of pepper.

(3) Cooking instruction

After boiling the meat with gravy and stalk of taro for some time, boil again
after putting vegetables an d other ingredients into it. Before eating, sprinkle
pepper on it and put into an earthen bowl. The stalk of taro is to be kept in cold
water one or two days to get rid of its smell and taste.
This is Filipino I think.


Serving Size : 30 Preparation Time :3:00
Categories : Ethnic Lamb
Philippines

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
3 kg dog meat -- * see note
1 1/2 cups vinegar
60 peppercorns -- crushed
6 tablespoons salt
12 cloves garlic -- crushed
1/2 cup cooking oil
6 cups onion -- sliced
3 cups tomato sauce
10 cups boiling water
6 cups red pepper -- cut into strips
6 pieces bay leaf
1 teaspoon Tabasco sauce
1 1/2 cups liver spread -- ** see note
1 whole fresh pineapple -- cut 1/2 inch thick

1. First, kill a medium sized dog, then burn off the fur over a hot fire.
2. Carefully remove the skin while still warm and set aside for later (may be
used in other recipes)
3. Cut meat into 1″ cubes. Marinade meat in mixture of vinegar, peppercorn,
salt and garlic for 2 hours.
4. Fry meat in oil using a large wok over an open fire, then add onions and
chopped pineapple and saut� until tender.
5. Pour in tomato sauce and boiling water, add green pepper, bay leaf and
Tabasco.
6. Cover and simmer over warm coals until meat is tender. Blend in liver spread
and cook for additional 5-7 minutes.

* you can substitute lamb for dog. The taste is similar, but not as pungent.
** smooth liver pate will do as well.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Suggested Wine: San Miguel Beer
Serving Ideas : Rice, naturally.

BON APPETITE!

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

So what's the most effective shot size for dog? I'm thinking #4 bird shot ought to be fine, but I've never hunted dog. Or maybe BB or BBB would be more effective.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

If we're talking hunting, a well placed shot with 5.56/.223 would be ideal.

For shooting into a herd or in brush, 000 buck should do the job.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

Alternate method: Shock collar...:emotions16:

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

Folks out in the sticks in Georgia use to shoot them on sight all the time. Not sure if they do that anymore considering all the animal lovers around who have a problem with folks killing feral dogs. Those damn things are dangerous and should be shot on sight.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

I'd think BB at 56 pellets in a standard 1 1/8 oz 12 ga load would be ideal for average dog.....big dog is approaching small deer....bigger shot might be needed....

This is hard to read as cut/paste....but here is the link http://shotshell.drundel.com/pelletcount.htm

AVERAGE PELLET COUNT FOR SHOTSHELLS


LEAD � Weight of Shot in Ounces ( Grams ) ( 3% ANTIMONY )
Shot
Size 1/2
(14.17) 11/16
(19.49) 3/4
(21.25) 7/8
(24.80) 1
(28.35) 1�1/8
(31.89) 1�1/4
(35.44) 1�3/8
(38.98) 1�1/2
(42.52) 1�5/8
(46.06) 1�7/8
(53.15) 2
(56.70) 2�1/4
(63.78)
9: 292 402 439 512 585 658 731 804 877 951 1097 1170 1316
8�: 249 342 373 435 497 559 621 683 745 808 932 994 1118
8: 205 282 307 359 410 461 512 564 615 666 769 820 922
7�: 175 241 262 306 350 394 437 481 525 569 656 700 787
6: 112 155 169 197 225 253 281 309 337 366 422 450 506
5: 85 117 127 149 170 191 212 234 255 276 319 340 382
4: 67 93 101 118 135 152 169 186 202 219 253 270 304
2: 43 60 65 76 87 98 109 120 130 141 163 174 196
BB: 25 34 37 44 50 56 62 69 75 81 94 100 112




SHOT SIZES

F T BBB BB 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 7� 8 8� 9
Pellet
Diameter
Inches .22 .20 .19 .18 .16 .15 .14 .13 .12 .11 .10 .095 .09 .085 .08
mm 5.59 5.08 4.83 4.57 4.06 3.81 3.56 3.30 3.05 2.79 2.54 2.41 2.29 2.16 2.03

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

I happen to love cats.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

There is a 100$ solution not only to dogs but to any wild animal including lions and bears.It`s called combat LED light with at least 100 lumens output and hopefully at least 1 hr at this level.

I just bought Olight M20 Warrior,it gives 250 lumens for 4hrs,90 lumens for 12hrs,7 lumens for 150 hrs and strobe 250 lumens for 4 hrs.This is one of the very best things one can buy for 100$ today.The 7 lumens is enough light for basic getting around in case you are stuck somewhere,90 lumens is enough to blind any creature at close range but 250 lumens is enough to blind at a much farther distance.I tried a Surefire with 45 lumens once on a vicious guard dog who was barking at me from behind a wire fence at night.I shot the 45 lumens in his mug and he shut up and ran away instantly like if I shot him with a gun.When you get a shot of even 45 lumens from a close range in your eyes you are instantly blinded,250 takes it to a whole another level,it`s actually not only blinding but painful,any creature that has eyes will back off.

I have a few high-end combat lights and consider them my core weaponry without which I never leave house.The lithium batteries are expensive and you need to stock up on them.There are currently very powerful LEDs up to 700 lumens that use regular batteries but they are big and heavy because they need like 6 AAs and the run times are shorter than those of the expensive lithium 123s.

PS.These lights do wonders on people in need of attitude adjustment too:)

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

have you thought about pairing this up with a handheld air-horn ?

bad guys don't like attention being drawn to them . . .

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

No but I pair up with a good custom knife always,we can`t have guns here in NYC.The idea of cutting up a blind attacker appeals to me tremendously.

For "bad activities" I recomend a blue LED Inova,it gives a very subdued blue light spot only about 12 inches in diameter at long range and maybe only a 4" circle of light at close range,you light up whatever bad activity you might be engaged in like rolling a joint at night without being seen.

PS.Highly recomend grabbing this awesome deal:
http://goinggear.com/index.php?main_...roducts_id=353

2 great lights for 100$.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

10-year-old dies in dog attack
February 1, 2010

SASKATOON � A 10-year-old boy is dead after family say he was attacked and killed by stray dogs on the Canoe Lake First Nation in Saskatchewan over the weekend.

Family members identified the boy as Keith Iron and said he was on his way to visit a cousin when he was attacked by a pack of four or five dogs.

�He almost made it,� said Cynthia Iron Ballantyne, the boy�s aunt.

RCMP were called at 1:25 a.m. Saturday and found the boy dead in a yard on the First Nation. While officials had not released the name Sunday, community members confirmed it was 10-year-old Keith.

�He was smart. He was very loving to everyone,� said a distraught Iron Ballantyne through tears. The boy was at the top of his class and never missed school, she said.

His brothers and sisters are also mourning the death, especially his younger brother, the person he was closest to.

�Keith was loving and not afraid to tell anyone �I love you,� � she said. �He had love for everyone, and he was really close to his brother ... they were inseparable.�

This is not the first time someone has been hurt by dogs on the reserve, said Iron Ballantyne.

�There�s an overpopulation here,� she said. �It�s the same thing like in Ile-a-la-Crosse.�

Last September, six-year-old Shiloh Berscheid was seriously injured after being attacked by stray dogs in Ile-a-la-Crosse.

The family is awaiting the result of a coroner�s report and RCMP continue to investigate the death.

A funeral for will be held at Canoe Lake School Thursday afternoon.

Canoe Lake First Nation is located 350 kilometres north of North Battleford, Sask.

Dog attacks, especially on young children, have been a recurring problem for northern communities, and not only in Saskatchewan.

In 2006 five-year-old Lance Ribbonleg died after he was mauled by dogs in North Tall Cree reserve in northern Alberta.

Earlier in the year two young boys died in separate incidents on Manitoba reserves.

A three-year-old boy was killed in a mauling on Sayisi Dene First Nation, and later, Derian Bird, 2, died from a mauling on the Hollow Water First Nation.



http://www.windsorstar.com/travel/ye...130/story.html

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

Come on out here in the sticks and try your light on a PACK of wild dogs. Yep, you'll scare ONE of them away while the others at your rear and both flanks attack and eat you. The light might work better on the feral house cats. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
On the other hand, LOUD gunfire coupled by the howling shrieks of a dying dog will usually scatter the pack long enough for you to vacate the area. And it gives the pack a dying animal to attack and eat, making you the harder target.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

Farmers around here have a protocol for strange dogs on the property. It's called Shoot, Shovel and Shut-up.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

A few indian bands I've been to up north have a day once a year for thing. The council posts the day it is to occur. If you want to keep your dog, it is to be tied up in your yard. Any others are shot. The ones that do this have not had any dog mauling problems like other reserves.

Back home we had a problem with town people dropping off dogs in the country. They would pack, and having had exposure to people, are not afraid of them. After a few families lost birds and calves, we buried poisoned eggs just below the surface on trails near the yard and shot any on sight. The pack was gone in a week.

The biggest problem with these wild dogs is that they are not afraid of people or anything to do with them. This makes them dangerous. The one thing that is a sure cure to the problem is death.

Note: I like dogs and own one as a pet.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

One of the worst sounds I ever heard was a pack of wild dogs running deer at night while tent camping. Talk about having to change your underwear.

I had two trail me one time when I was trapping a creek fed pond on state wildlife land back in '93. Used the same trail I was just on until they came to the waters edge. Lost my scent there. I was about a mile in and had a 9 shot H&R full of .22 shorts. Standing in knee high water behind a muskrat hut for 2 hours in Nov.....not cool. They lost interest and someone was looking over my shoulder that day because I was really scared I wasn't going to make it back to the truck in one piece. The walk back was alittle unnerving.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

I have a light that puts out 290 lumens, and believe me, dogs are not particularly phased by it. Unlike people, dogs rely more on their senses of smell and hearing than sight. Mtnman is right, a light will not save you from a pack of dogs, or even one dog if it really wants you. A gun (or a knife or pepper spray if you can't have a gun) will be far more effective than a light.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

Reading this made me think about going Jon Voight on a pack of dogs. :cry1: Just watched a Deliverence repeat this weekend on Spike.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

I live in an area where people drive up to abandon their dogs. Along with that fact, there are people who let their dogs run loose and coyotes that will play tug o war with your ankle biter and you. Most people out for a walk with their ankle biters carry a cattle prod.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

vodka & dogfood.

dog falls asleep.

person butchers dog.

hot dog.

restaurants put it on their menu.

haute dog. :23_31_2:

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

(UK) Crackdown on dangerous dogs to make microchips compulsory for all
Tuesday 9 March 2010

Plan to extend dangerous dogs law to cover attacks on private property and to require third-party insurance


All dogs are to be compulsorily microchipped so that their owners can be more easily traced under a crackdown on dangerous dogs to be unveiled today.

The package will include extending the dangerous dogs law to cover attacks by dogs on private property to protect postmen, and making third-party insurance compulsory so that victims can be financially compensated.

The measures will be set out by the home secretary, Alan Johnson, who will point to rising public concern that "status dogs" are being used by some irresponsible owners to intimidate communities or as a weapon by gangs.

The RSPCA says the number of complaints about dog fights has risen 12-fold between 2004 and 2008. In London alone, police seized 900 dangerous dogs in the last year.

Johnson is expected to give details of the package in a speech on crime and antisocial behaviour.

"Britain is a nation of animal lovers, but people have a fundamental right to feel safe on the streets and in their homes," he said.

"The vast majority of dog owners are responsible, but there is no doubt that some people breed and keep dogs for the sole purpose of intimidating others, in a sense using dogs as a weapon."

He said ministers were determined to stamp this out. The crackdown has been endorsed by the environment secretary, Hilary Benn.

The package is expected to also include proposals to give police and councils more powers to tackle the problems of dangerous dogs by introducing dog control notices; consider removing exemption rules that allow some people to keep banned types of dogs; and introduce compulsory third-party insurance so victims of dog attacks are financially compensated.


Jon Dennis discusses the plan with dog owners on Wandsworth Common, south London Link to this audio Under the scheme a microchip the size of a grain of rice is injected under the skin of the dog between its shoulder blades. The chip contains a unique code number, the dog's name, age, breed and health as well as the owner's name, address and phone number. When the chip is "read" by a handheld scanner the code number is revealed and the details can be checked on a national database.

Many dog owners already microchip their dogs with the details logged on the national PetLog database. Vets, dog wardens and RSPCA branches offer the service at a cost of �10 to �35.

The practice appeals especially to those who take their dogs abroad. If the scheme were made compulsory owners would face a fine for failing to microchip their dogs. It is not known how the scheme will be phased in but it is assumed a "puppies first" approach will be adopted.

Four types of dog are banned under the dangerous dogs legislation, including pit bull terriers and Japanese tosas.

The ban means it is illegal to breed or keep one of these breeds unless a court places the animal on the exempted dog index and it is neutered, tattooed, microchipped, muzzled and kept on a lead in public.

Much of the legal framework stems from the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act, which used to be held up as an example of the poor quality of legislation passed by MPs in haste but has actually proved a resilient and useful law over the past 19 years.

The Home Office said yesterday: "While this legislation is an essential tool in tackling antisocial behaviour, the government wants to look at it again to ensure it is working as it should and enables the police, local authorities and the RSPCA to take swift action to protect the public and stop abuse."

A Home Office grant of �20,000 is to be spent this year helping police forces train dedicated dog legislation officers to deal with dangerous dogs.

A leaked Whitehall discussion document on dog control legislation suggested that competence tests for dog owners would also be included. This sparked a storm of protest on the blogosphere among dog lovers and does not appear to have been included in the final version.

Benn said: "There is a lot of public concern about dog attacks, including the recent tragic deaths of young children, and about the rise in the number of so-called 'status dogs' used to intimidate or threaten people. This is a serious issue of public safety.

"The government wants to hear what people think about the law as it stands and what more we might do to protect people from dangerous dogs."

Billy Hayes, general secretary of the CWU, which represents postal workers, said: "This is a long-overdue, but extremely welcome step.

"We've been calling for changes to the law for several years now following some terrible dog attacks on postal workers."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...hips-insurance

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

You need insurance to own a dog now?

This last article is another example of why the UK is done. Put a fork in it their cooked.

Re: SHTF and wild dogs/packs
 

No comment about the proliferation of unlicenced dogs.